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Our featured expert this week on the Boss Your Business Podcast is none other than Amanda Johnson… and she is ready to share her take on how great things require time, especially when it comes to developing expertise and skill in any field!
Seriously, there’s no roundabout way to do it, no magic pill, but a journey that spans years of learning, practicing, failing, and improving.
The truth is, overnight success stories are rare. It took Amanda Johnson years of hard work to prove how military veterans can thrive as entrepreneurs after leaving the armed forces.
who is amanda johnson?
For those of you who haven’t heard of Amanda Johnson, she’s someone who spent 23 years in the Royal Navy before retiring in 2012, and then went on to learn how to be a Virtual Assistant under a VA training company.
By 2014, Amanda had already taken over that same training business, VACT Limited, initially running it alongside her own VA company. Eventually, she realized the training business had more longevity and potential for scale. She sold her VA business to fully focus on training and growing VACT Limited.
Now, when Amanda took over VACT Limited, it was a small operation providing VA training courses. She set to work scaling and growing the business from the ground up. She developed new training programs and course offerings to attract a broader client base. But she didn’t stop there, she soon upgraded the business infrastructure, processes, and systems to support even larger projects.
Amanda credits her military background for giving her the discipline, planning skills, and work ethic needed to build a thriving enterprise from minimal resources. The military instilled in her a “can do” attitude of overcoming obstacles and achieving goals through perseverance.
Her business focuses on providing authentic, real-world training that helps clients succeed in setting up and growing their VA or outsourcing businesses. She prioritizes giving students the hard skills, tools, and confidence they need to transition into running a scalable business.
So make sure you tune in to The Boss Your Business Podcast to hear Amanda Johnson’s inspiring entrepreneurial backstory, how our mindset is vital when it comes to building a thriving business venture, and some special advice for other veterans looking to start their own company.
📄 Video Transcription:
Yvonne Heimann: We are back with another episode of boss your business. And today I think the episode is going to be quite fun. Little deep and interesting. So guys stay tuned as I introduced to you, Amanda. Hi, how are you?
Amanda Johnson: I’m good. Thank you very much for having me.
Yvonne Heimann: So to introduce you all to Amanda, you are actually over in the UK. So you were back in like close to my old school. Stomping grounds. You are a military veteran and you run today one of the UK and Europe’s leading virtual assistant training companies called VACT limited. You are an ex Royal Navy logistics officer. Your military career spent 23 years, girl, looking at you.
How did you cramp in 23 years of a military career in this? You are hardly, we’ll talk about all that.
You covered a wide range of secretarial, professional, administrative, and logistic duties on your retirement from military in 2012. You launched your own VA business. Then in 2014, you bought the business you had trained with and for a number of years, ran your own quote, doing VA business alongside the training business.
And eventually realized that you needed to get some sleep once in a while. So you sold the doing business to focus purely on the training side of business. . And then now you work primarily with those wanting to set up a VA business and those wanting to grow and ask an authentic business.
Amanda Johnson: Yes.
Yvonne Heimann: Now that’s quite the story because I don’t think. Wait, I think Melissa had bought businesses. Melissa loved that I had on the show who happens to be in the UK too. She had bought a business, but I don’t think I actually had a lot of guests that end up buying a business. So rather than just diving all deep into your bio, I we, especially.
As somebody that works as a VA, writing usually is really nice.
Let’s tell the audience in your own words, how did you get here? Because I know a little bit more than our listeners and viewers already know. And I know there was quite a big turning point.
Amanda Johnson: There was, so I joined the Royal Navy age 17 years old as the most junior person that you could join.
Yvonne Heimann: 17. Did you always know you were going to, wanting to join?
Amanda Johnson: From about the age of eight, I knew I wanted to join the military. And about the age of 12, when you go and talk to your careers tutor at school, you say what you want to go and do? I said, I want to join the military. What? What subjects do I need to do to join the military?
And he said to me no. He said, you’re a girl. He said, a hairdressing course or a secretarial course or go and work in a shop. Girls don’t join the military.
Yvonne Heimann: Watch me.
Amanda Johnson: I was that person, I was that I am joining the military, and so off I did, I went and did all my own research, did all those things, and in, back then, girls were not allowed to join the military until 17, whereas boys were allowed to join at 15, 16.
I left school, I went and did my secretarial course, just to keep everybody happy, and then I joined the military. And, in my junior eight days, I served in Northern Ireland, much to my mum’s displeasure. I went to sea, I had fun, I worked for the Royal Marines, and did all sorts of fun jobs. Worked in the Falkland Islands, and…
Then I got bored. I bought a house at 19. I bought my first house at 19 and I started to get bored. So I decided that I needed to do something else. So it was either leave the military and I couldn’t afford to do that because I had a mortgage. Stay doing what I was doing, but I was bored, or go for my promotion.
So I went for my promotion, and I became I was very lucky. And in 1997, I became an officer. And then you start at the bottom again, almost. And actually, you’re more junior than what you were when you were a junior, right?
And I worked my way up through the ranks of that. And then… In 2003, I appreciate this is a bit of a sort of multi year thing, but in 2003 my husband and I both went to Iraq for the Iraq conflict.
And up until that point I never ever wanted children. I was, there was not a maternal bone in my body. And I came home from the Gulf in 2003 and said to my husband, I want children. And he looked at me and went. No. And I went I want children. But then we found out we couldn’t have children. And so it was like, oh my goodness me.
Lots of tests, as you do. And so we were, had been accepted to have IVF in 2009. So it was like, okay, not gonna be for another couple of years. We just parked it. We said, okay.
So off I went, carried on my military career, came over to the Caribbean, went to the Caribbean to do chasing drug runners and humanitarian relief and all those sorts of things.
Came home from there, hubby and I went on holiday. And we came home pregnant with twins. It was like, where on earth did you come from? And it really was that sort of thing.
Yvonne Heimann: Uh huh..
Amanda Johnson: Unfortunately, fast forward a few months, unfortunately, my children were born extremely prematurely, and they passed away. And they were, they passed away at age eight hours.
But at that point, the world, the bottom fell out of my world. And I was just, I didn’t know what to do. To be honest with you, I really didn’t. And I decided at that point that’s it. I’m leaving the military. Life is too short. I’m going to leave. And a very senior naval officer sat me down and he said, Amanda, you’re going nowhere.
You’re 18 months from pension. You’re staying until that point. And he said, then you can do whatever you want. But you are staying, so it’s okay, all right, so typical
Yvonne Heimann: It makes sense. It’s it’s only 18 months and you’re going to get your retirement.
Amanda Johnson: Exactly. And so bless him. And he was very good.
He said, We’ll do whatever we need you to. And the military were very good to me, but so that during that period though, during that period of grief, and I know you’ve been through grief, but during my period of grief, I went out and spent money.
I had new double glazing, new central heating, new gas, you name it, we did it.
We did the house up. I needed to keep busy. Yeah. And whenever I spoke to any tradesman. They never ever returned my calls. They were not sending their invoices. And I sat there on my living room floor.
And this is 2008 and I didn’t launch my business for another couple of years, but this is 2008 sat there on my living room floor and went.
You need admin support on a pay as you go basis.
Yvonne Heimann: Oh my god, yes.
Amanda Johnson: And I was like, oh, this is brilliant. I’m going to launch this career. Nobody’s doing this thing. I’m going to go and do it. And having had a parent that had been self employed, I thought you’re bound to need insurance. company and said, thinking of doing this pay as you go admin support as and when you need it, what do you think?
And the man said to me, So you’re going to be a virtual assistant. I said, what the hell is a virtual assistant? He said, pay as you go, admin support as and when you need it. I said, you mean to say I haven’t created this industry? And he said no, love, you haven’t created this industry.
Yvonne Heimann: I’m only over here, because I think we all haven’t been exposed to it, we haven’t been around it. It’s there. I’m like, but even what year was that about?
Amanda Johnson: That was 2008. And
Yvonne Heimann: but it also had, I’m like, in 2008, yes, it existed, but not to the extent it exists now.
Amanda Johnson: No, so it had been around about 10 years at that point, but only if you really knew about it.
And so I was like, Oh, okay. All right, then. So being typical military, I did what lots of militaries do. You have to do a course, you have to get a certificate, you have to get a piece of paper that says, You can do this thing in the real world. Which is
Yvonne Heimann: over here because of the same way. Oh my God. As Europeans, we are freaking ridiculous. The whole upbringing of you need the certificate and you need the school education. And it’s do you?
Amanda Johnson: And then so then fast forward on a little bit, we went on to have our eldest son who’s called James. And at that point I said to the Navy, let time for me to go and they said yeah okay so I was very lucky I managed to leave and I did my research, set up my VA business and so that was 2012 and so since then I’ve ran my VA business and it was all about that freedom to do what I wanted to do.
And at that point, and you’ll laugh at this one too, I, Didn’t want any stuff. I didn’t want any appraisals. I didn’t want to have budgets.
I didn’t want to have to be accountable to anybody else. I just wanted to run my own business. And you set up a VA business and work with multiple people managing multiple people’s budgets, appraisals in some cases, saying not yes to them, but you get my feeling. It was just one of those, Oh God, Amanda, what are you doing?
So yes. So that’s how I ended up in the VA industry. And back then my coach, because you have to have a coach, don’t you? That’s what you do. My coach said to me, you must work with the industry you come from. And I said, okay, all right then. Military don’t work with VAs. And she said you’ve got to work with the industry you come from.
And I’m like, but they don’t work with VAs. And I was like, oh, okay. I thought, I’ll sod it. I’m just going to go and work with people that I like. People that I get to know, and trust. And I was just like, do you know what? I’ll just go and make it up. And I’ll just go and enjoy myself. And that’s what I did.
Yvonne Heimann: I’m still baffled by the, you have to work with the industry you are from. This just feeds right into my red button subject of niches. It’s like, when I look behind the scenes on specifically systems, guess what? I can take these and apply them to every single different category and niche of business.
VA is the same. It comes down to the same framework. So I love love, love how you all like, you know what? I’m just going to work with people I like.
Which guess what is going to come down to just your value alignment, your connection, everything else we’re going to figure out, scheduling, calling people, getting stuff done, get.
Amanda Johnson: And that was, so right when I first left the military, I was like, Oh, it’ll be easy. Everybody will love me. And she had said, you’re going to just, you’ve got to work there and whatever. And it didn’t happen like that. It took time to get to know trust. And I don’t know if you’ve come across the book The Go Giver by Bob Berg.
Yvonne Heimann: doesn’t ring a bell. I’m going to have to look that up.
Amanda Johnson: It’s a small business parable. It’s only a couple of hours read. And the f The first time I read it, I just read it, but I literally read it cover to cover two hours. And so I then read it again, and it was about, it’s got five small lessons, business lessons in it.
But what it made me realize is, stop trying to go out there and sell, go out there and build relationships. And I literally stopped selling and built relationships. And do you know what? My VA business took off and everything else. And I’ve applied that ever since.
Yvonne Heimann: Because the interesting thing is when you stop selling and you start asking questions, they literally got to come to you and be like, can you just do this for me?
Amanda Johnson: Absolutely. And it’s less about selling them more about serving. And I don’t mean that in a wish washy way either. I just mean in being there for people.
Yvonne Heimann: And in the end it’s interesting because I’ve been on my journey called with sales where it’s I’ve never proactively sold on my social media.
Interestingly, I actually don’t sell. I just never mentioned how people can work with me. I always just gave answers to how to fix things and then realizing that selling doesn’t have to be selling. Just be like, Hey, if you have this issue, this is available to you. And this is available to you. And selling in that sense where you don’t have to be the whole crappy cold LinkedIn message that yeah.
Yeah, I think we’ve all been there. I love that. So you were running with the done for you. Things are picking up, you’re building that network. You’re building those friendships and connections. And then things changed. They do actually bought that you bought the business.
Amanda Johnson: I did. And then my coach, I became the business owners VA, first of all. I then became a licensed trainer for her and about six months I bought into that I’d paid to do that and to earn from it. And about six months later, she went, Oh, I’m just going to close the business. And I was like, you can’t do that.
I’ve invested money and I haven’t got spare pots of money to do these things. And so I thought, I can do this because now
Yvonne Heimann: I’m curious. I’m curious because this happens. This happens where people decide, Hey, things are not working how I envisioned it. People might be getting sick. What whatever the trigger is.
It happens for us that we stop offering a certain offer. We’d simply just say, I don’t want to do this anymore. So in that situation, was she going to stop contracts earlier or run it out and close the business?
Amanda Johnson: She left me with about 27, 000 worth of training to deliver that she had earned from. And I only found that out over the sort of from buying out to the 12 month point as these people kept appearing and so it was like, okay, and it was damaging the brands and I had bought the brand.
And so I delivered it. Because I didn’t want to damage the brand and as I’m a people pleaser, which is lots of VAs are people pleasers, and I didn’t want it to come down on me. So I delivered it and things like that. So it was a horrible period of time and it’s I try and bark it and lock it away, because it’s one of those, I just like, no!
But, I learned a lot of lessons from it. And I will be absolutely honest, I learned a lot of lessons. But also back then, I…
So this is 2014 by now I’m mum to two children. I had a, I’d launched my VA business when my eldest was two and a half. I was, the second one wasn’t even an idea and all of a sudden he pops out and here he comes thing.
And so in 2014 I was. I was juggling two businesses, two children, my husband was running a brand new business.
He launched his business in 2014 and we were, I’m going to say, I was, I saw a video this week actually of somebody showing a swan and that sort of paddling like hell underneath. And as I looked at it yesterday, I thought, yeah, that was me, that really was me.
Because you’re just trying to keep everybody happy and I was.
Yvonne Heimann: Yeah, I think we all can identify with that image and have seen it where everything seems to be calm on top and underneath the duck is just paddling like crazy. And so that was the moment where you then switched fully into the training aspect of things, right?
Amanda Johnson: That’s right. And that’s where my thoughts were going a second ago.
So as a military person, you’re always coaching, training, leadership and doing those things. So I already had those skills.
So I brought them out into the real world, to the civilian world with me. And doing anything different. That was just using my skills. But what I found is. I wanted to come out into the real world, into the business world and understand business. And I, so I did those first couple of years.
That was all about really learning how to do business, getting my, although I had a degree in business and stuff like that,
Yvonne Heimann: it has nothing to do with a practical knowledge.
Let’s guys, anybody listening, let’s be honest. There is something set to learn about business. Don’t get me wrong.
Having some frameworks down, having a general understanding, but guys, seriously, that paper on the wall is worth shit by the time you are running your own business and you are in it. Just saying.
Amanda Johnson: And do you know what, if many a time, I don’t even remember I’ve got a degree because I did my degree during my military days, because, I didn’t have the opportunity when I was much younger and in the military as an officer, they used to say, Oh, you have average intelligence because you don’t have a degree. And it really annoyed me because
Yvonne Heimann: I’m too lazy to get the damn piece of paper on the wall. It doesn’t mean I’m average intelligence. I have way more practical intelligence than the whole book learning. That was just the button for me because I always I was miserable in school.
I am NOT a book learner I’m a practical learner. I need you to learn it for me to stick in my head Just reading about it is not gonna do shit for me.
I need to implement it for those lessons, too Oh, yeah, what work welcome to one of my red button lessons, right? Yeah Really?
Amanda Johnson: But, so I forget that I’ve got this piece of paper, but the moment I got it. The Royal Navy changed my appraisal and it would say things like Amanda is above average intelligence.
Do you know what? Annoyed me even more than when they said I was intelligent because it was like you’re really just proving this piece of paper. So for me, a little bit like locking other things in the cupboard, I seem to forget really that I’ve got it and went and wanted to get the grassroots knowledge of what it’s like to run a business, to run a VA business.
And for me, that’s more important. Because I can when somebody says to me, I’ve lost a client, how do I deal with it? I can answer those questions.
Because I’ve been there and done it. I’ve had a client not pay a bill. Do you know what, these are the steps you can take. This is the process. Because I’ve been there, I’ve done that.
I’ve had my very first client didn’t pay my bill. And he said to me you’re female, you’re new in business. What are you going to do about it? And I was like
Yvonne Heimann: watch me.
Amanda Johnson: I have this contract. This is going to stop that. I have this. These are all your time tracking reports. These are all the emails.
And we literally, we went to court and we settled on the night before we were doing court. And he went, his lawyer said to him, she’s going to win. And he was like, okay, but I’ve delayed it for nine months. I was like, you insert swear words. No, I was just like, no.
Yvonne Heimann: And this is the reason why my podcasts are always marked explicit.
I’m like, really people really.
Amanda Johnson: But can you imagine being this brand new business owner who has just come from the military where I’ve had a lot of responsibility, large teams, people doing what you’re saying, and somebody saying to you, you won’t know anything about it because you’re a woman, and I was just like red rag, off you go.
Yvonne Heimann: I’m like, at that point, it’s literally just the principle. I will take you to court just for the principle of it. I don’t, at this point, I don’t even necessarily care about the money because I already have to deal with replacing it somehow, but it’s the principle, dude.
Amanda Johnson: The lesson I learned from that was don’t ever do any work without a contract.
And quite often VA’s will say to me, Oh it’s only a few hours work. I’m like, I don’t care whether it’s the biggest contract in the world or a couple of hours. You need a contract. You need something that says you’re going to do this and they’re going to pay you that, and this is the deliverable.
Yvonne Heimann: And it’s also good the other way around. So I had a similar situation as a client with a coach where I was promised certain things. And they were not delivered on a 12 month contract where I’m like, this is not what I signed up for. This is not the framework. This is not the purpose.
And I was able to get out of the contract simply because she didn’t follow her own contract. Took a little bit and thank God I have legal counsel, but it’s also, it’s not just a security blanket for us that we are getting paid.
It also lays out what the client can expect. They’re not just in the sense of what do I get, but scope creep when they are like coming for 10, 000 different revisions. I’m like, no, it clearly states you are getting three.
Amanda Johnson: Yeah, it protects both parties and that’s the big important thing. It doesn’t matter what it is. It protects both sides of the thing. But they were lessons that I learned that allow me now to say to people, these are why it’s so important.
Yvonne Heimann: So how is your business structured nowadays?
Amanda Johnson: So nowadays I purely coach, train, and mentor. I have a course, I have a membership, and I split my time between those and one to one coaching. I only work with, probably like yourself, I only work with a certain number of people at any one time, because actually, I get so invested in what I’m doing.
But I wake up at night, I think, Oh, what about that?
They should try that. And I literally get up in the mornings and message them. And they’re like, when did you think of that? We’re about two o’clock this morning. They’re like, sorry.
Yvonne Heimann: But that’s how it’s I’m like, yeah you are my sister from another mister, because I’m the same way.
My unconscious mind constantly processes and how does these connect and how can we fix this and how can we make this happen? And I had to go that far to actually set a boundary for myself to not work slash message with clients before 10 AM because me being constantly in it started to get back to me where I’m like, I’m not doing my workout.
I’m not taking care of myself because I’m literally, I’m so in it. I love what I do. But also I started training my own clients of, Oh yeah, she is around. I’m like, we have scheduled emails. We have stuff that I can do when I want to do it without publicly appearance that I’m messaging them at six o’clock in the morning, after I woke up because I had an idea last night
Amanda Johnson: and those, I think though, and I don’t know if you have the same, we have to breach those boundaries. To know what those boundaries are. Yeah. In, you’ve got to do it and then go, hold on a second, that’s really interfering with this, that and the other.
And then you can set those boundaries. And nowadays, when a new client comes on, I’m much better at it. But I had to go through the pain of getting it wrong to know what’s important to me. And to my family and things like that.
So that is where tools, that is where sort of boundaries systems and all of that come into play because otherwise, yeah, 24 seven, my brain’s doing.
Yvonne Heimann: And guys, there is a big overlaying lesson here that seems to be going around and keep popping up as of late. It’s the just do. I’m a planner, I’m a structurer, hell, I can spend hours figuring out the best way to run a process. You do not get data or feedback till you actually do it.
If that is setting your boundaries and how you work with clients, if that is a process, if that is your content and what connects with your audience, what not connects, what do you want to do in your business?
What are you passionate about? You are not going to get that knowledge and that data. If you keep being stuck in the planning phase, you just need to do and get the feedback.
Amanda Johnson: I often say it’s about, and when I’m talking to new VAs, it’s research, but then stop. Cause otherwise you will just keep researching and planning forever.
And you will net and then it becomes a procrastination. Oh yeah. Sort of action because it’s like I need to research. I need it to be perfect.
Yvonne Heimann: And it’s no, no such thing as perfect. Non recovering perfectionist over here. Seriously guys. It’s not. Ah, my always favorite question.
What are some of the processes and workflows that allow you to run your business as you are now and enjoy time with your family and not being the paddling duck all the time?
Amanda Johnson: Okay. So I am a little bit old school. I still plan on paper because my brain works on paper and my notepad will go with me and whatever. But I only ever work with one notepad and I keep all my notepads. And they’re all set up in a way that my very first PA, yep.
Yvonne Heimann: Whoever is just listening to the podcast, it’s like my desk, when I get overwhelmed, I start going back to paper and quick post it notes.
It is time, my brain is clear again, I need to clean out these post it notes and actually go through what do I have done and not. So when you said you only have one. Notepad. I’m like, yeah,
Amanda Johnson: and I use one notebook and everything stays in there and I use check boxes But when I was 17 in my first job in the Navy, there was a lady in the office next door and she was a PA and to me she was God She was long blonde hair.
That was immaculate Her uniform was always perfect. She wore high heels, whereas I still wore flat, flatter shoes. She wore stockings rather than tights. So to me, she was God. And she always set up her notebook with a column on the right hand side.
It didn’t matter what that notebook looked like, but with a column on the right hand side, and she always used that column to write the date in, to write any important telephone numbers or to tick off stuff. And she never, ever got rid of her notepad.
During the time in that job because she’s you never know when somebody will come back and say, what about this? What about that? And that’s stuck with me for 33 years. Okay. So I still work that same way and I have done for 33 years. And I plan on paper, but then I use tools to help me.
Then use that or to capture my dates and stuff like that. So from a CRM perspective, I use a fairly new tool to help me liaise with my clients and things like that, which is called practice.
And it’s a CRM. And what I love with it is it has a private comms channel with my clients. So coming back to that thing of messaging when, as and when I think about stuff, I can put stuff into there and then send it to them at a sensible time or things like that.
And normally I’m a firm believer of when I was VA ing, not having client stuff on my phone and not having social media on my phone. So for me, they, social media is a marketing activity, do it at my computer and all of that and my phone was all about being personal. But with that CRM, I can have it on my phone.
And so if I’m out traveling or I’m out doing something and I think, Oh, I need to share that with them. it can go into that app, which means it goes direct to them. And then I have that audit trail when I come back to the office, or when I’m doing other things, or when we’re on a coaching call. And it’s you said, Oh, you said this, and I said that, and so for me
I try to keep it just that and things like that. So with my notebook, and then those are actually my primary things I work with, because I’ve, this year, I was trying to think of the gentleman’s name. Have you heard of Chris Brogan? Yeah. Yeah, so Chris Brogan has three words of the year. And for me, I always, I’ve been following that principle and helping me guide my goals and all for the last few years.
And this year, my words are simple, momentum, and smile.
Yvonne Heimann: Simplicity. Simplicity this year, where I was like, I’m done overdoing just because I can. Simple and efficient. Oh my God. Yes.
Amanda Johnson: And so for me, whereas I had lots of tools and a bit of this and a bit of that, and I was doing it, I’ve just gone, no. Let’s pair this back and make it simple and stop over just because you can do something doesn’t mean you have to do it.
And so I’ve literally, I’ve stopped over complicating it.
Yvonne Heimann: I’m telling you, we are like sisters from another mister. That is exactly what’s happening in my business where it’s like, why? Just because I can doesn’t mean I should.
Amanda Johnson: So those are my three words and that’s had that impact on the tools and the tech that I use to run my business and Touch wood, it’s working.
Yvonne Heimann: And I think on the idea of Words for a Year, guys, because I think we see it all over the place on when the years change and everybody is doing it, I think where it helps me is it brings me back to a focus of how I want to adjust. So when I get into the everyday, when I get back into old Yvi with old habits, I can refer back to those words.
And it’s no, you said you want to run this more simple and more efficient. This is completely against that. Just put it aside. It gives you that premonition slip of not giving a shit.
So any potential VAs, existing VAs that want to go kick some ass, where can they find you?
Amanda Johnson: The best one is probably my website, which is very simply vact. co. uk. I am on all the social media platforms. Of course I am. But do you know what? The easiest one is the website because there’s doesn’t matter what stage they’re at or what they’re thinking.
There’s resources there because I’m all about giving back and there’s lots of free resources there. That’s going to help somebody move forwards and also to see whether they can know and trust me. Yeah, so that’s the easiest.
Yvonne Heimann: You’re going to find those links in the description. It’s all there easily for you to click on.
Amanda, thank you so much for joining me and with all of the UK guests, maybe I should do a pit stop once I travel back to visit my family in Germany and we just gotta make it a big meetup or something.
Amanda Johnson: That would be lovely.
Yvonne Heimann: Thanks so much for coming on!
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